The Fight for Women and Democracy: Q&A with Mu Sochua

I had the privilege of meeting one of the most amazing women walking on this planet, Mu Sochua. She was the Vice-President of the National Cambodia Rescue Party (NCRP), where she was in charge of foreign affairs and public relations. She served as Minister of Veteran and Women's Affairs in Cambodia's coalition government from 1998 to 2004, and was a member of Cambodia's National Assembly, representing the province of Battambang. She left Cambodia following a crackdown on opposition leaders in 2017.

Mu Sochua gave such an eye-opening on the importance of democracy, women's rights and human rights. She covered a lot of social issues, including human trafficking, oppression, marital rape, and gender inequality. She helped make big steps for women in Cambodia by mobilizing men and women to talk about domestic violence and its existence.

There are just no words to perfectly describe her passion and her bravery in fighting for what she believes in. To help her with her fight for democracy, I am going to share questions that I and other people in the audience had for her during the talk!

1. How has the problem of child trafficking and adoption weakened women?

Human trafficking women, who are sold in slavery, was a big part of the Ministry that I ran when I was there [Cambodia] and it's still a big part of it because of poverty, the lack of rule of law, and corruption. The first people who were victims were those who became so desperate that they got caught into trafficking. And what do we do about it? That's part of building democracy too. Building a country with a government that puts the value of people first, and fights against corruption, fights for rule of law. We can't have that until women speak up, until women can organize [protests] without being put in jail. We must start by knowing that women's rights are equal to human rights.

There's the program of Gender Equality and Gender Mainstreaming. I was the first woman to run the Ministry, so I was new to all of this. I got a lot of regional consultants to discuss the meaning of Gender Mainstreaming. However, in a dictatorship, you put aside gender equality and gender justice. It's time to be courageous and to build your own strength and speak up. Defend with action. This is a street fight.

2. How are people going to rise up and know that you're coming back when there is censorship in Cambodia?

There is a 45% penetration rate in Facebook or higher than that in Internet access. People are very aware. The campaign to stand up and rise up has been from the outside. I'm sure there are people from the inside who are part of the opposition too, but they can't say that. However, what keeps us connected with the people inside Cambodia is that they use Facebook all the time! To inspire the people is to be inside. Every day for the past six months, we have been telling them that we are coming home. But if they comment on Facebook, they can go to jail.

There's a woman a couple of days ago, arrested and put in jail because she raised nine fingers, meaning November 9 [the day Mu Sochua is returning to Cambodia]. Hun Sen said in public, "You only have nine fingers? Where is the tenth finger? Let me cut it off."

This is how Hun Sen gives speeches to students. To inspire them for what? For war? He needs to go. But he needs to go in the most peaceful way. Now.

3. How can we encourage more men to join the battle of women's rights?

From the home level, we should have shared responsibility. I don't go to the kitchen unless you clean the dishes! Men are still talking about politics out there while women are putting together the best meal. Change it.

However, when it comes to collecting money at a fundraiser, the women are out there. When it comes to going to the pagoda, the women are out there. For me, looking back, for the past 25 years, I have not addressed this issue enough. It is time for my generation to take a step back and let your generation come forward. Don't just be inspired, but take action. Take action by saying this is my Cambodia. This is my America and our America. Together. Based on values, but not based on the power of a man or a woman or a party. But our values. The fundamental values of human rights and especially women's rights. I believe in the power of getting together in the streets and protesting, but non-violently. Resist actively, but peacefully.

4. How can we convince women who are scared to fight for human rights?

Building together. Very specifically, I think looking back, if I were to run the campaign again, as a leader, I would have not spoken too much. It should have been the young people with their real stories. Two years later or five years later, when they have to come and join you in the protest, they can see the meaning and see that they lost their land. They will protest for a cause, especially if it is for them. You are the subject, you are the victim. They will fight for their own land.

Fear paralyzes you. It is especially what Hun Sen wants. To make you fear. Yes, you fear, but turn it into a shared strength. It will be made into power. Having said that, don't be surprised if, on November 9, there will be blood on the streets. But then that means it has become a real revolution.

5. What is the role of migrant workers? Why are they so significant in the oppositional parties?

It goes back to why they fight. To start with, why are they fighting for this, especially unskilled migrant workers? Because they never had an education in the first place. And you compare that to Singapore, but Singapore has skilled migrant workers. So you go back to the core issues: where's the land of the farm of their parents? How much do their parents owe to the microfinance institutions? 2 million Cambodians at the rural level owe at least $2,000, which is a lot of money to pay back to a microfinance institution. There are many banks, but farmers will have to borrow and borrow when there is no market for their products. Because there is so much corruption. We use these stories over and over, but they are real.

6. How can we bridge Western values of democracy with Cambodian values?

There are many Cambodian-Americans and Europian-Cambodians. This generation needs to talk to each other. You need to build a coalition and change politics. Politics is not just about Hun Sen. You have to form your own coalition, your own party, your own system, and speak about what Cambodia should be, and engage the Cambodians inside.

7. Why can't we bridge the gap between economic and political power of women, despite them being the breadwinners?

We have to combine the potential. Women are strong. Without women, what can you do? But make it real. That's why we should make a government that can invest in education, women and healthcare to begin with.

But at the same time, the cultural values of Cambodia are very strong. There is a lot of gender discrimination. And this is where we fail as a political party for women. When I was Minister, that was the first time in 2002 when it was a local and commune election. There was a gender quota as a policy of the Ministry. We did not pass that, but at least we mobilized and encouraged women inside the party. But the political party, even my own, had men who did not want to find women for the party.

There's this Cambodian proverb, "Men are gold and women are just a white piece of cloth". And these values are still internalized. It has started to change, but it is not strong enough. We need to change this proverb, where "men are gold, but women start as precious gems". That's why I wear this outfit [a skirt]. It's to make a point.

8. What are your plans in case you are jailed? What can people do to help you?

It will be called #FreeMuSochua. It has not started yet, because my daughters, of course, do not want me to go home. My daughter, Malika, will be the spokesperson, and she said that she's not going to help me get out as the Vice-President of NCRP, but as her mother. She said "You have been a women's rights defender, and we will get young women to help get you out."

I think people can help Malika carry this and make it a real campaign. A petition online will die online, unless it is on campus. Unless every single person has a banner, unless there is a symbol. Unless there is a commitment in saying that there has been a man running Cambodia for 34 years. But he is not the true leader. A true leader does not call on the army to kill his own people. A true leader stands up, competes fairly and squarely at each election. I think I ask you this, because you also need to not think of Cambodia as a really nice, beautiful country. It is for the moment, but it will not last, because it will eventually be destroyed.

I am just a symbol. By going to jail, this becomes a movement. This is enough of a substance to show to the Cambodian people inside that we are fighting for you outside. But we cannot continue to fight outside unless you fight from the inside. Stand up! The blanket of fear will cover us in darkness, and we need to live and see the light.

It will take so many years. Cambodia will be dominated by Chinese casinos, Chinese military bases, and the exploitation of our people will be much deeper. Cambodia will lose the attention of the West. It is already losing attention.

After the talk, I was able to chat with Mu Sochua more about democracy and human rights in a more personal level. After she found out that I was from Hong Kong, she became ecstatic. "I love Hong Kong people!" she said. She was optimistic about the change that the Hong Kong people are envisioning, and is proud that they are fighting for the democracy that they deserve.

"Democracy is very much under threat around the world." She said. "The world has to say that democracy is not only about America. It's about the whole world. Citizens of the world must be engaged in global issues. Democracy and human rights are global issues."

Table discussion with Mu Sochua

On the 9th of November, Mu Sochua will be returning to Cambodia. And she may be jailed as soon as she arrives, perhaps for 30 years or even for life. That concerned everyone who was in the talk. But despite our worried faces, Mu Sochua just smiled. There was no trace of fear in her eyes, but rather, peace and courage.

"Turn your concern into action." She told us. "Turn your concern to something that will make a difference for the women in Cambodia and play your part in building democracy for the whole world."

"I'm going home to tell the people to stop fear. We have been living in fear for too long. If we continue to fear, no one is going to deal with our fear for us. Unless we are out on the streets protesting, each one of us is a leader."

Before I left the talk, I gave her a big hug and hoped her the best for her journey in fighting for democracy. As she fights from the inside, we all can do something from the outside as well. What we can do for her and the Cambodian people is to spread awareness of the #FreeMuSochua campaign that will begin very soon. People have to know about the dictatorship rule in Cambodia, and that the people there do not stand alone. If this post and hashtag can be spread, that can already be one of the first steps to a big difference that could be made for these people.

At the same time, we can also support the causes that she supports as well. There is an organization called She Can, where they help women from post-conflict countries receive scholarships in the United States. They teach them leadership skills, to be engaged and active, and introduce them about women leaders, so that they can return home to fight for change in their country. More information about this organization can be found here.

So to Mu Sochua, thank you for your courage and determination in the fight to build democracy for your people. It has empowered me to fight for the change that I want to see in the world as well, and support these causes in whatever way I can. I wish you all the best in your fight, and we will all stand by you.